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Talk:USM Valor
=Please keep the talk page clean= This page was a mess. Everything was just a giant block of text. I added in headers and indentations. Next time, put an header before your question with two equal signs "=" on both sides. When replying, indent your text with a colon ":". Lastly, sign all your posts with four tildes "~" --BronzDragon 21:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Reason for the ship being near Does anyone even know what the ship was doing in that system anyway? I know it says it was prepared for war but with whom? :There is a text log in chapter 9 saying that the valor is there to stop the Ishimura from taking the marker and that they knew about an "infection by a lethal organism". They could not pinpoint the ishimura and were ordered to wait for contact before confronting them. ::Exactly,The Valor was on Station to wait for the Ishumura to relay its posistion to the Valor,Hence the need for Nukes,If they knew of the Infection they would not want any of it to survive aboard the Ishumura. Behavior question Hey, I have interesting question: if Valor was there to stop ishimura from finding the marker, and if Valor knew where the marker is (on what planet), why it needed Ishimura to send information about it's position? Valor could just fly to the planet on which the marker was hidden, fly around it and it would easily find the ship. Ishimura could not escape because after lifting the rock, it would have to stay on geostationary orbit. --Shrooman88 14:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC) :Okay, I reread some of the in game logs and I found the answers (but of course every time when a question is answered, new questions are born). Nevermind ;p --Shrooman88 15:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC) Warning Fixed lopsided and subjective changes to article. In addition, please refrain from making any major changes like this in the future without first discussing it here. I added a note to make sure all discussions lead here. -dpw6 Ammo on the Valor? Oh yes, and one more thing: the argumant abvout there being ammo for Isaacs weapons is stupid. There is ammo on the valor for gameplay reasons. Not everything has to be connected to the story. :Well, yes and no. Granted, it is almost certainly a gameplay mechanic, however, even then, the fact similar ammo containers exist and the like do suggest the military does have access to weaponry similiar to the tools Isaac uses. Even ignoring the other weapons' usefulness for dismemberment, the amount of damage they can cause and the versatility of them compared to standard weapons like the Divet and the Pulse Rifle would suggest the military would likely have weaponized versions of said tools, or at least weapons using the same ammo types (it would seem silly not to). --Haegemonia 09:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC) ::I disagree. We don't have military stile saws or power drills, why would that be different here. A more logically sound argument would be that the Valor has engineers on board. --BronzDragon 21:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC) :::The problem is though is that most of the tools Isaac use seems to be specifically built for the use of Mining. It would make sense for a Plasma Cutter (or what seems to be a Plasma Cutter variant the Plasma Saw) to be on board the USM Valor and the Force Gun aswell because these seem to be multipurpose tools. But tools like the Contact Beam would not be very useful on a military vessel. And they're dangerous tools not actual guns designed specifically for killing which is why the Military would not convert them to weapons. (Which is another reason why they could not defeat a single Necromorph.) 18:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC) The Valor situation is currently a mess, plain and simple The Valor situation is currently a mess, plain and simple. They can clean it up by explaining additional ways that Necromorph infection can be caused, but as it sits Valor is just a mess. They weren't unprepared. Even if it were an escape pod and they only expected a human, they would have opened it armed and ready. They're a military vessel. They wouldn't open the escape pod and offer cookies and tea. As for the "they didn't know about dismemberment" theory, the marines on the Valor use the same plasma rifle that Isaac has access to in the game. As Isaac, you can use the Plasma Rifle to kill any necromorph with body shots. In the Downfall movie, Vincent and her crew killed several Necromorphs without dismemberment, using handguns. Sure, it took a lot of bullets, but it worked. Even if the Valor didn't know about dismemberment, anyone who's used the plasma rifle even moderately knows how inaccurate it could be. Several marines shooting at a Slasher, a few shots would be bound to hit arms/legs. Failing that, shooting it in the head/torso would dispose of it fairly quickly. One Slasher could not have single handedly taken down the Valor. It's simply impossible given the information we get in the game. The only way it could have happened is if it somehow surprised them, killed a marine, got killed, and there is some way for Necromorphs to infect bodies without the use of an Infector. As it is, it's a complete mess. Future entries in the property, whether it be books, movies, or games, could clear this up, but there's no way reasoning out of this one. So shrug your shoulders, accept it is probably the only story flaw in Dead Space, and continue to enjoy the game. :I've got an idea, maybe the Slasher broke the escape pod's door open before the Marines could get to it, and escaped into a vent? That way the Marines would have found an empty pod, and the Slasher could have gone on to kill unprepared people. What ya think? ::Has anyone thought about the the fact that maybe the Slasher somehow became an infector. Since nothing has been shown to contradict the idea that necromorphs can change form to suit the current needs. :::Some of the logs tell us that there are necromorph bacteria, and I believe this is what created the first necromorps. This could also be how an infector works (by injecting an body with these mutating bacteria). This would explain why no infector is needed, this also explains why not all slashers are super slashers. --BronzDragon 22:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC) ::::Is it possible that an infector was present on the pod ? I think their is possibly some ventilation that an infector could have slipped into the pod through. Eldude95 22:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC) :::::It's possible, but a stretch. I find it hard to imagine such a pod being hooked up on the air conditioning system. A more likely scenario is that the slasher took out only the helmsman, and killed him, causing the ship to crash. The crash killed everyone aboard after which they transformed.--BronzDragon 22:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC) A new theory I found... I don't claim to have thought of this, this is only a quote: Despite my initial objections over this point after the game came out (and since then, I admit), this isn't a plot hole. The Necro that boarded the Valor was, indeed, a simple slasher, and while the game itself seems to suggest that the necromorphs can only reproduce via the Infectors, this is simply not the case. Since the release of the game, this point has been clarified by providing us with a detailed account of how the outbreak on the colony started - it was thanks to the exposure to the basic necromorph bacteria of a pair of scientists that the first two necromorphs were created. This bacteria is present in each and every necro, as its recombinating capabilities are what cause the transformation, regardless of type, and though Infectors are obviously the most effective at transmitting this bacteria, it is now almost a certainty that all necro types have a chance of transmission given direct blood-to-blood contact (assuming the bacteria is blood-borne, which I admit, we can't be sure of). The fact that we have two clear examples of infection not involving an Infector means that it is possible that multiple marines were infected on the Valor, and thus were able to overcome the crew. (As a side note, we find an audio log inside the Valor that proves that there was more than one necro on board, as the commander blatantly refers to the attackers in plural several times). As to why the opened the pod in the first place? When you first approach the pod on board the Ishimura the Necro was completely hidden from view until it jumped out at you. I'm guessing they couldn't see what was inside. Eldude95 05:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Actually, that's not a new theory, its fairly old. Additionally, it creates a great deal of issues which are not easily resolved (why don't all the necromorphs go about infecting others, why even use infectors, etc.). The above author also makes several mistakes above, in terms of omitting facts and outright exagerrations (ex. Cadigan only says ONCE that there are multiple hostiles). Also, the original "bacterium" was the hive mind itself (which, about a million tons of biomass later, became like we see it in the game). It makes sense the progenators of all necromorphs would be capable of procreation, otherwise the necromorphs would never be able to begin to multiply. Furthermore, this only shows that the Hivemind is also capable of infecting others, not regular necromorphs. Examining all the media asssociated with the game, I have formulated the following: -The Hive Mind may infect indivduals, and may do so via direct contact or via "spores" (explaining how the bodies in the morgue on Aegis VII morphed despite not coming into direct contact with any appreciable biomass). -The rate of infection depends on the amount of infectious biomass introduced to the host, explaining why the bodies in the morgue and the first two scientists took days to morph (given they only were introduced to minute amounts), while the bodies in the P-SEC command center and those infected by Infectors took a much shorter time to do so (having recieved appreciably more biomass). -The Necromorph DNA exists in a undifferentiated and differentiated form. The undifferentiated form is capable of infection (the "yellow-green bile"), while the differentiated is not (i.e. the claw of a slasher). -Given the nature of the necromorph infections, I agree that all necromorphs probably do contain a certain amount of the infectious biomass, however, it is exceedingly small in most cases, only being useful in a self-regenerative and maitenance role. A regular necromorph (i.e. a slasher) COULD infect someone else, but the process would take an exceedingly long time (far too long for necromorphs to morph on the Valor prior to the crash). An example of this is the crew member choking to death on the ground in the Intensive Care chapter. While he seemed clearly to be infected given the liquid he expelled, he was not displaying any rapid mutations evident in the cases of Infector born morphs. -Infectors were created for the very purpose of rapid mutations in victims, however, given this function seems to consume much of the hosts original biomass, this would explain why not all necromorphs are made to be highly infectious, as it would require far too much biomass and lower their efficacy in combat. -The Corruption seems to act as a superorganism, consuming waste (probably even dead necromorphs) and altering the environment. Given the nature of the corruption, I imagine it acts as a secondary means of infection, mutating much slower then Infectors but much faster then regular necromorphs. Its probably can even release spores like the Hive Mind, as that would explain why the Captain was already showing signs of mutation (note aberrations found in his autopsy) despite his body not coming into direct contact with the necromorphs until Isaac arrived at the morgue. -The necromorphs seem to use an anaerobic form of cellular respiration, given they do not require oxygen to survive, further promoting their similiarity to certain parasites/bacteria (note that many of the traits above are also similar to certain parasites and bacteria). -The longer a body is dead, the more useful it is to the necromorphs. Given, after death, not all the cells in the human body are dead, a necromorph infection would only be able to utilize a fraction of the total biomass, the rest of it would likely be discarded or energy would have to be expended to consume it. This would explain why infectors only seem to make super slashers, as the bodies they infect have been dead for a longer period of time. It also explains why all the super necromorphs show much greater levels of decomposition (note all of them have "maggots" pouring out of them), as they have been dead longer, thus most of their biomass could be utilized. -Finally, the necromorphs must have a more efficient metabolic process then chemiosmosis or such, given the rapid rate of their mitotic/infectious cycles and the low/non-existant requirement for nutrients and oxygen. Anyway, thats my little theory on things. Yep. --Haegemonia(talk) 19:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Ah yes, in addition to the above: -Infectors, while only seen creating slashers, are also capale of creating any other type of necromorph (excluding the Hive Mind, of course). The reason why the infectors tend to only create Slashers in the prescence of others can be attributed to the complexity of the changes required in the host. Given slashers have the most human-like body type and do not require extra biomass from other corpses, Slashers would be able to be produced much quicker then almost any other type of necromorph. Now, given that, in the prescense of others, the Infector is placed at risk, it is quite easy to understand why the Infector only seems to create Slashers around others; By creating slashers, it increases the number of corpses it is likely to be able to infect before dying (or enough so as to prevent it from dying). -Reiterating the above, there is no set time for a necromorph mutation to occur in a host; For the same type of any given Necromorph, the hosts mutation will be almost completely dependant on the amount of infectious biomass introduced. However, when considering different types of necromorphs, the complexity of the final organism must also be taken into account. A Brute, requiring the corpses of several hosts, would undoubtedly take longer then the creation of a single-host Necromorph like a Pregnant all other considerations being equal. Likewise, a Pregnant, being larger and capable of creating further smaller necromorphs, would take more time to create then a Slasher. -The reason taking the limbs off of a necromorph will kill it, while removing its head or firing into its torso are less effective, is because the necromorph has a diffused nervous system. In essense, the necromorph's cognitive facilites are spread throughout its body, like a jellyfish or seastar. Therefore, the most effective attacks on the Necromorphs are those that remove the greatest number of said cognitive facilities; shooting of the head doesn't remove nearly as much biomass as the loss of an arm or leg. However, if the nerve clusters for a necromorph can be targeted, this is an even more effective means of dispatching them. While this is hard to do in smaller necromorphs, as their complexity and size do not necessitate large bundles of nerves, super organisms like the Slug, Leviathan, and the Hive Mind require such clusters to maintain and coallate all of their synaptic processes. --Haegemonia(talk) 00:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC) penises. No thats a bit innaproprate, mateThe Deathclaw Tamer 00:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)